Pondering: A priest forever

 Pondering: The Lord as sworn and will not relent. You are a priest forever. Just like Melchizedek.

This is said twice in Scripture referring to Jesus.

So what can we understand?

First: Melchizedek is a priest forever. If Melchizedek's priesthood is forever and unchanging, so is the priesthood of Jesus. God doesn't change his mind. So...is Melchizedek still doing his priestly work? Or has he been, so to speak, retired?

Second: God has given to Jesus a name above all names and everything and everyone must bow their knees to the name of Jesus. So whatever Melchizedek is or is not doing now, he is in no way equal to Jesus.

Third: Jesus is the high priest of our confession. We have been made kings and priests in his kingdom (definitely on earth but will this continue in heaven and the New Jerusalem?) How many eternal priests are there? A high priest is over many priests. 

Fourth: No man comes to the Father but by Jesus. This is very important. The Bible doesn't say that no man comes to a good afterlife or to heaven without Christ. It says no man comes to the Father. So we have Lazarus in Abram's bosom. We also have Ezekiel speaking of those who serve the prince but never see his face forever. We have people outside the gates of New Jerusalem. We have the book of Romans and the concept that where there is no law there is no sin. Although sin and death rule over them, there is the law of their conscience. And we have Jesus speaking of those who didn't know the will of God being beaten with fewer stripes. We also have the Great Commission because even unsaved ignorant people who live by their conscience will sin against their conscience. I wonder if Melchizedek is the priest whom God has appointed over these people. But all will be Christ's and at last everything that is Christ will be God's.

Just going through a Biblical rabbit hole. We have to be careful when it comes to rabbit hole theology and doctrine.... especially if ultimately some theory doesn't matter to our own life. It's okay to ponder but our ponderings must always bow to Scripture and this is why we need to know Scripture. So many deceptions have come about in the church because someone missed a Bible verse. I remember a pretty famous preacher going on about God creating many humans in the beginning and calling their name Adam, as a collective. He decided on this because he figured the world couldn't have been so quickly populated. But he missed the verse in Genesis that says Eve was the mother of all living. And he missed the verse which states that through one man sin came to the earth. If Gid had made many Adams then did all the Adams eat the fruit? And if one of the Adams didn't eat the fruit, why didn't God use that tiny remnant? The same way of missing or ignoring or misunderstanding a Bible verse can be found in theology  where hell supposedly doesn't exist, or even in the idea that Satan represents collective human evil and tendencies. So when they say Jesus battled Satan's temptation in the wilderness, they forget the verse that the Bible says Jesus knew no sin. This kind of thing goes on in small things...like those who believe in the Sethite theory (as if two different kinds of humans could be good and bad and marrying into the wrong race of humans could create strange beings.)

Anyways...all this is to say that Scriptures are our guidelines in all our ponderings. Or else we'll wrestle scriptures to our destruction.

Studying Scripture versus Encountering Scripture

When I used to teach I remember a fellow teacher saying to the students, "This is how you understand a poem: you read one line and look at all the words to see if you understand it. Then when you understand that line, you read the next line." As a poet and writer, I thought that was not exactly the right way to teach students how to read poetry. Not at first, anyway.

In the Book of Acts, Luke writes, "When the chief scribes and the Pharisees saw that the apostles were unlearned men, they perceived that they had been with Jesus!"

Let's ponder that. There is a great deal of difference between studying Scripture and meeting the holy spirit with Scripture.

In Jesus time, the Chief Scribes, the Pharisees, the Saducees, the lawyers, all had studied Scripture...and yet they missed God.

Nicodemus was part of the Sanhedrin, a learned man, and yet he "was a teacher of the law" and he didn't understand what the heck Jesus was talking about. There are folks who can tell you all about the poetry, the history, of the Psalms. Yet they seem to not know how to hear God talking to them every day.

Most of you know me. I love knowledge. I've written quite a bit on how not to read the Bible and how to use common sense. I'm a poet, I love poetry. The Publishers Weekly review stated that my novel had the "poetic ambience of an old world folktale." I've studied ancient history, and many reviewers have stated that Wind Follower, my novel, is a wonderfully anthropological novel.

Compliments like those are great, don't get me wrong. But I would rather be able to get up each morning and hear God say, "Get up and telephone such and such a person and tell them such and such a psalm because he needs it" rather than hear someone tell me how well I know the Bible. As St Paul says in the Love chapter in Corinthians, "If I have all wisdom, it profits me nothing."

Honestly now -- how different are we American Christians from other religious groups in America? Even those of us who "know" the Bible don't live it. How is our behavior different? How powerful are our prayers? How closely do we hear God? How loving and sacrificial and giving are we? What is the difference between a kind-hearted devout Jew and a kind-hearted devout Christian and a kind-hearted devout Muslim? Honestly, nothing! And really, as Christians, that shouldn't be, should it? Because we Christians are called to raise the dead (literally), heal the incurably sick (such as those with AIDS), and cast out devils (such as devils of addiction, deviancy, etc.) But we are as enslaved to the weak and beggarly elements as non-Christians. And if we judge by behavior alone, we are as worldly, selfish, sinful, as the worldly folks out there.

We can hear God speaking to us in the Scriptures without totally understanding all wisdom. That doesn't mean we should avoid learning the historic and poetic reasons for a psalm or a book. One of my favorite Christian expositors is Bullinger, especially his Figures of Speech Used in the Bible. But I don't know what it is with me: someone once accused me of hiding my light. I think I just don't like sounding super-smart or super-cultured. God has called me to be an everyman and to speak to every man. Especially to those not in the Church. So I do my best to be human and transparent and to show what God's word has done for me. Not to prove how smart I am or how well-read. Because it's normal folks who read the Bible.

Everywhere i turn i see folks converting to judaism or becoming wiccans or buddhists or muslims. Many of these are Christian folks who were very very very christian and in the church...and yet, to them Christianity was "proved" by docrtine or, tradition because their folks were christians or scripture reading....but not by power. So in the long run, they could leave Christianity because it was to the human eye just another religion that said it had the truth. St Paul said he minister not in mere words or doctrine or with great word of wisdom but with power. The gospel is not mere doctrine but the power of God. But for most christians in the western world it is nothing but words and missionaries teach nothing but theology and even those who say they believe in the holy spirit are pretty near powerless. Certainly, we're not as powerful as Christ wanted us to be. So in the long run what we see is no distinction between Christ's people and other people. In the world, the people who live under the blood and have eaten of the passover should not be oppressed by the plagues, should not be unholy, should not be distant from God. The Spirit of God should emanate from us.

It just bothers me so much. What to do? The particular converted Jews i've talked to a) changed their faith because the y began studying the religion of judaism and got caught up in it...and slowly moved from christianity to judaizers to rejecting christ to orthodox judaism. or b) they said other religions had done evil but Judaism had never done any evil to the world. Just gave me a bad feeling. Because they did not see any degree of holiness (not that seeing holiness is that dependable but Jesus did say people would see our holiness and our good works.) It just annoys me when I see folks who were once christians doing this sort of thing.

Lily Allen with her stupid song, "I kissed a girl." She came from a Christian family. Now she's dissing Christianity. Jessica Simpson is supposedly a Christian but does she really seem to understand it in the very depths of her heart? Reba, supposedly a Christian, believes she has been reincarnated. This kind of thing shows that folks who grow up in churches are not being truly convinced deep in their spirit. Even though, they praised Jesus and were "professing" Christians they have a kind of sentimental unthought-out Christianity that shows they don't understand Christian philosopy, for all their learning...and they have never really seen the power of Christ in their life, to see the reality of Christ. They have never heard Christ in their hearts in a real way. They have never really seen or felt Christ in their spirit.

I had a friend who was a deep christian then she became a black jew -- that weird cult that thinks African-Americans are the real Jews and who are very anti-semitic. What amazed me was how deeply into christ she was. If you had asked me who would stop being a Christian, she would be one of the last people I would mention. More and more i think that church-going bible-believing christians need to really understand their faith...or else they will leave the faith. I am fully persuaded that in the coming years most "christiany" folks in Christian colleges and Christian churches will leave the faith. Paul prophesied of the great apostasy in the last days. Because I've seen so much of this kind of thing. And no amount of those silly revivals churches have which really do nothing...are gonna help because as a people we really need to grow more in the spirit and to show the depth and beauty and deep thought of christianity. And our "teachers" are teaching that godliness is great gain and the prosperity gospel without somehow really touching the gospel.

Anyway, I feel God telling me to write this...it's something pressing on His heart. Just as the abortion issue presses on his heart. Just as the drug issue and the plight of the widows and orphans press on his heart. As the days go on, I feel we will see this falling away...and we will see that all our learning (for the educated) and all our jumping up and down in church (when we are supposedly touched by the spirit but really allowing a religious spirit to use our pride) will be useless.

We are playing church...we are talking the talk...but we aren't walking the walk as Jesus intended his church to walk. And there's a reason for it. We compromise and we don't spend time in the word. (Yeah, I'm guilty of this too. When was the last time I raised someone from the dead? But I am determined to have raised several before I meet my maker. And I mean a literal raising of the dead. Isn't that what God promised his people?) Well, it's not God's fault that we don't see miracles. It's ours. True, God uses dirty vessels because those are the only vessels he has but at the same time he had purified us with Christ's blood. But he isn't going to entrust us with miracles if we aren't serious about allowing his word to change us.

In Wind Follower, I did my best to try to show how truly folkloric Christianity was and how many religions, and ancient folklore pointed to a blood sacrifice. Am gonna try to see if I can somehow make my new WIP The Constant Tower a story which shows the inevitability of works as a means of getting to heaven. I don't know what God wants me to do with it but all I can do is write and trust him to put the great christian message--which is the great christian offense to those who like "works" or the externals of holiness. It's all I can do. Had to get that off my chest. -C

Words, semantics, expectations, stylings II

Okay, my other post today about Words and spirituality. Second part:

Was doing my devotionals this morning -- Paul's letters to Timothy, Titus, Philemon...and whosever's letter to the Hebrew's.

It is amazing how modern mainstream Christianity has so limited the meanings of certain religious words. By limiting the words and making them bereft of their fuller meaning, we have a lesser gospel. And unfortunately, since the lesser gospel is the prevailing gospel it's hard to believe in the glorious marvelous full gospel of Jesus.

For the most part the gospel as preached today is limited to the saving of one's soul from hell. So when we read words that imply the salvation of the body, the soul, the spirit, the finances, the mind, etc...we read them with our bereft understanding of them. Even though we know the Greek word "sozo" is translated as "salvation" and means the deliverance from hell, sickness, poverty, etc, etc, etc, etc...we are so brainwashed that we struggle to see more than the deliverance from hell. At least I struggle. I keep asking myself, "why this internal struggle against accepting the word in all its facet and meaning? Carole, are you trying to not believe?" I suspect I am trying not to be fooled. I suspect the world tells us that good news is just too good to be believed. After all, didn't Isaiah say, "Who has believed our report?" Plus we just don't know how much God loves us, how much the Devil hates us, how much God hates the devil, sickness, sin, etc. And HOW GREAT AND POWERFUL THE GOSPEL IS!!!!

Weirdly enough, I tend to have no faith in what modern full gospel ministers say. I suppose I think it's a fad. I wonder if their American "good life" mentality has affected their interpretation of the gospel. But when I see that the old guys. Folks like Rev Romaine (way back in the day), Jeanne Guyon, John Lake, Andrew Murray, Bosworth and some unknown little pastor in the middle of nowhere believe the fullness of the words we modern Christians have trouble with. Then I begin to belive. Today will be reading Jeanne Guyon.

So, words that need to be considered, words that we tend to shrink and limit semantically:

Reward, salvation, confession, grace, faith, gospel, hope, promise, word, life, eternal life, blessed, kingdom of God. All these words can be limited only to certain aspects of their full meaning.

For instance, if the kingdom of God is within us as Jesus said, do we interpret it only as a future life in heaven?

I was very blessed this morning reading the faith chapter (Hebrews 11). And why? Because I saw that some of those heroes of faith had faith which affected physical things. If one listens to some minister who has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof, the next thing one starts believing is that the sovereign God has put a thorn in one's flesh and means one to suffer forever. Then one doesn't fight to try to overcome evil because one starts thinking...well.... I must endure. But we are told to resist the devil and he will flee. We are told to fight the good fight of faith. A tough battle to endure...but one I'm fighting.

Words, semantics, expectations, stylings I

Am thinking about words today. In two ways.

First: the lingo of the New Testament.
Most Bible readers know that the New Testament of the Bible was written in the common language of the people of its day. That means that Paul, Jesus, the apostles all spoke the uneducated language of their day. Okay, Paul was a little more educated and his writing gets pretty stylistic and punny and downright full of allusions to Greek poetry and Hebrew poetry. But for the most part, consider the Greek of the New Testament the po folk talk of its day.

My Moslem friends rightly say that the language of the New Testament simply is not as beautiful as the Koran. They also add -- not so rightly-- that God would never write a book like that. God, they say, wrote the Koran. But let's be clear about this: Allah may not write a book like the New Testament or the Bible but Jehovah/Yahweh would. The Bible is about God and Man working together. In Islam God is so far above that he is totally sovereign. Allah may work with man but not to the extent that Jehovah allows man's writing styles, personality, peeves, doubts to enter into Judeo-Christian Scripture.

I remember an atheist telling me that St Paul wrote the entire new testament as a way to deceive people...that St Paul was a creation of Jesus....gospel and all. He said that's why all the prophecies of the Messiah work so well with Christ (???? Honestly!!!!) because Paul was a scholar and theologian. My attitude as a writer is this: IF Paul was such a scholar, and religious inventor, why did he write a book that picks on scholars and religious theologians? And why did he choose stylistically to write in the ebonics of his day? It just reminds me of people who believe some great inventor made the Shroud of Turin, or that Life just created itself out of nothing. The stuff some folks come up with to challenge the gospel always take more faith to believe than the gospel itself.

Isaiah 40

Okay, it's gotten to the point where I either dream of the sermon the minister is gonna give or one of the Scriptures I happen to study during the week tend to be the ones the minister sermonizes on.

So I definitely feel God is with me and the holy spirit is touching me and teaching me.

This morning I got up and opened the Bible to Isaian 41. So I read Isaiah 40. Okay, I'll read Isaiah 41 later today. But I read chapter 40 because it's one of my absolute favorite chapters. The others are Isaiah chapter 6 and Isaiah chapter 53.

So there I am reading along and suddenly I had to stop at the end of verse 2.

Isaiah 40
Comfort for God's People
1 Comfort, comfort my people,
says your God.
2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and proclaim to her
that her hard service has been completed,
that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the LORD's hand
double for all her sins.

Now, is it me? Focus on the line "double for all her sins." Have we been reading this line to mean double punishment? Or does Isaiah mean it as pointing to grace? Does he mean double blessings for all her sins?

I'm one of those people who really dislikes assumptions. Especially assumptions made by those of us as we read the Bible. I'm the one who annoys ministers by saying, "Wait a second! That's an assumption! The Bible says the rich young ruler went away sorrowful because he had much riches. It doesn't say he went away NOT intending to follow Jesus. Maybe he was sorrowful because he WAS going to follow Jesus. We just don't know."

I'm the type to say, "Okay, where does it say Delilah was a harlot and evil and a Phillistine? She might've been a nice Jewish farm girl for all you know!" Or I'll say, "What're you talking about 'three wise men'? Where the heck does it say there was three of them?" I'm the type to say, "And why exactly do you think Gabriel is an archangel? Where does it say so?"

Yes, my friends, I am a pill even in church groups. I cannot tell you how many times I have annoyed the heck out of someone by saying, "Well, you're assuming that. And the church has assumed that for 2000 years. Could you be wrong?"

So here I am, pondering the word "double." Thinking about God's personality, I find myself thinking, "Would God actually be so apologetic as to say to sinful Israel, 'yeah, I punished you...more than you deserved. I'm kinda unfair like that'???" I think not.

Next, the line comes in a verse that is talking about God's comfort. Okay, we humans might comfort someone else by saying, "I am so wrong, I shouldn't have punished you so bad." But God isn't human.

Of coure I have to go study the line in the original Hebrew but I am suspecting that Isaiah is talking about the power of the gospel restoration. For our great sin, what has God done? He has graciously given us so much more good.

I totally believe that when one is reading the Bible and something jumps up in one's mind that one has never considered before that it's the wonderful sweet holy spirit talking to you and enlightening you. I think he wants me to ponder this verse today. Maybe my pastor will talk about restoration next sunday...who knows? maybe he'll talk about something that connects to another verse that will be brought to my mind in the next few days. In the meantime, gonna ponder how graciously our God restores us....and how he gives us so much more than what we have lost. We really must ponder the love of God more. St Paul warned the Corinthians against saying, "Oh, so God gives us so much good because we have sinned, let us sin even more so that even more grace can flow!" I can understand how, when one fully understands God's grace, one can think such a thing. But as St Paul said, "yes, God is loving and gracious...but God forbid that we should do such a thing!"

He did me much evil

“O Lord, if you mark iniquities, who shall stand?” Psalm 130:3

“Elias was a man subject to like passions as we.” James 5:17

“For God sends rain on the just and unjust.”

These are two of my favorite verses in the Bible. I have many favorite Bible verses – and for many reasons, but these verses always make me smile. Why?

“Alexander the Coppersmith did me much evil.” 2 Ti 4:14

“But Diotrephes who loves to have the pre-eminence among them.” 3 John 9

First and foremost, the epistle writers are finger-pointing. And they are so human about it. As a Christian growing up in North America, I was taught to turn the other cheek when someone wounded me or destroyed me. It was pretty evident that turning the other cheek meant no finger-pointing. This means that if someone made you lose your job, took away your spouse, stole your money, etc that you were supposed to keep your mouth shut, forgive them, and silently keep the pain to one’s self.

But here we have John the beloved disciple and Paul both indulging in finger-pointing. Hey, if Paul was the only one to whine about someone, I’d let it slide. But John the Beloved Disciple? The guy who talks about “love” in almost every verse?

It’s curious to see this. Jesus is loving and he complained about bad guys. If one reads the Book of Acts, one can see that Alexander the Coppersmith is not particularly nice either. A worshiper of Diana, he started a riot when Paul preached about Jesus in Ephesus. Likewise, Diotrephes doesn’t sound like a particularly nice person. He refused to allow his small church to care for or help traveling missionaries. So John’s assessment of the guy is valid to me. And yet, in my oh so proper heart and my pseud-upper-class snootiness, and my cultural idea of classiness and stoic behavior, I just feel a bit uncomfortable about this finger-pointing. Alexander was a pagan, and Diotrephes was a believer, probably a deacon...at least he thought he had power.

I don’t know where I got the idea that we should not complain about another person. The Bible tells us to turn the other cheek when an enemy harms us, but often we assume that this means not saying anything to those who have harmed us. Some Christians will tell everyone how they have been misused, cut others do not even complain to the one who harmed them.

I’m not going to create a theology about the fact that the Holy Spirit shows the flaws of these writers. The Bible repeatedly tells us that complaining is a sin, and that we should rejoice in all things. I am not sure if we should complain about other people only when the church is threatened. But what is interesting about these two verses is that they were human enough to complain and their hurt and anger is apparent. Paul doesn’t sound too forgiving, and John tells Gaius that he’s going to give Diotrephes a good talking-to.

This leads me to Elias. James tells us that he was a man who was subject to like passions as we are and yet he prayed and God heard him. “Subject to?” Interesting phrase. According to Vine’s, it means “bound by.” It could also mean “in danger of being penalized for a misdeed” or “controlled by” Imagine that? Remember Elias? He battled Jezebel. He was burned out. He wanted to die so much and was so tired of living that he actually asked God to take him. And God answered him by letting him die.

Elias was moody, depressed, beaten. And God answered his prayer. John and Paul were none-too-perfect either. Although God had said “It is not good for the man to be alone.” Although the writers of the book of Proverbs had said, “He who finds a wife finds a good thing,” Paul’s attitude was “if you marry you’re going to be in trouble: don’t do it.” As for John, it’s pretty difficult to find something bad to say about him. After all, he was the one disciple who was manly enough to align himself with Jesus when Jesus was suffering. But...yes, there is this little matter of finger-pointing. He’s talking behind someone’s back here, and probably Diotrephes deserved it. But it’s not something we perfectionist Christians would be happy about. So, yes, John is not perfect. And, frankly, that makes me incredibly happy.

Often we think that God will only answer our prayers if we are perfect. While it is good to have a pure heart, a clean soul, and a holy mind when we pray, we have a loving God who remembers that we are human. Jesus told us that God sends sun and rain on both the just and the unjust. God is so loving and good that both the evil farmer and the good farmer can depend on him for rain and sunshine.

Jesus is a wonderful high priest -- not because he was good, but because he knows how hard it is to be good. Ask God for wisdom. Ask God for healing. Ask God for blessings. He loves you. You may be surprised that He will bless you even if you are not perfect enough for him to answer your prayer.

light and salvation

The lord is my light and my salvation ---- Psalm 27:1

I was sitting in bed last night when the greatness of this verse, as it applies generally to God's people and specifically to my son, just kinda totally wonderfully impressed me.

God, God's word, God's truth, Christ's blood..... are both light and salvation. God himself saves...and guides us into saving truth.

This means, for me, that not only is God and God's word actively and powerfully saving me without any effort on my part except the effort to love God and read his word....but it is also teaching me and guiding me into true knowledge about earthly life, spiritual things, myself, etc.

This means also that while God is saving my son in a wonderfully sovereign way, he is also educating my son and teaching my son how to learn. Just wonderful.

I haven't arrived but at least I've left

It's so interesting dealing with my son who, by virtue of age and also his not reading the Bible, doesn't know the ways of faith and truth as well as yours truly.

I'm so not spiritual. I wish i were a little more spiritual. But my son....well, he still thinks way too worldly for me.

For instance I have learned to cast my care on God. Mind you, when i cast it...I walk around nervous and whiny and totally fearful that God hasn't taken up what I tossed to him. Total lack of joyful and confident faith, mind you. George Muller I'm not. But at least (patting self on back) I at least am willing to give God my life and kinda trust.

Well, the older son works in a distribution center. He's developed this mean cough -- tons of mucus-- since he started working there. Seven months ago. Logical maternal old me says: leave! But he won't. He hates the job but refuses to step out in faith that God'll give him a better one.

And I'm no help really. Cause if he had a mom who trusted in God more joyfully, maybe it'd have rubbed off on him...and he could learn to cast out into the deep. NEvertheless at God's word, he would thrown down the net. But has he been reading the word and building up his faith? Or is it second-hand? And what a second hand faith? It was tattered before I handed it over to him. Is he living on my -- shaky, wimpy faith?

Gotta force that kid to read his bible and know God for himself.

Bible verse dream

I went to bed last night thinking about my need to feel God's love. I truly believe that one can endure anything and be healed of all the hurts thrown into one's life by humans and demons if one really feels God's love. Felt that so much about life is about "an unveiling"... as Paul said in Ephesians... that there are things we need to truly see and know, that to know God's love for us, God's power in us and about us, God's guide, God's care...

And what do I dream of?

I had two dreams: The first dream was about a person who hurt me. I forgave her. She wasn't a Christian and I was. Then I had hurt someone else -- a little slight, mind you-- and she was a Christian and very rigid and very unforgiving. I sat in the dream amazed and stunned at how unforgiving this supposedly Christian could be, and how relentless in her unforgiveness. She was pretty mean to me and closed the door in my face although I begged her to forgive me.

The second dream was about psalm 70 and 71. A woman from church and I were reading it. Got up and read it: The verses that really touched me were:

Psalms 70: 4 May all those who seek you be happy and rejoice in you!
May those who love to experience your deliverance say continually, “May God be praised!”

Psalms 71: 8,
I praise you constantly and speak of your splendor all day long.

71:15 I will tell about your justice, and all day long proclaim your salvation, though I cannot fathom its full extent.

71:16 I will come and tell about the mighty acts of the sovereign Lord. I will proclaim your justice – yours alone.

71:17 O God, you have taught me since I was young, and I am still declaring your amazing deeds.

When we read these verse -- and depending on the translations-- we sometimes think of them as a plea to God, but they really can also be read as commands to the people of God.

So I feel as if I have been given a command, something that I must be obedient to and obey with every possible ounce of obedience

Really trying to work on my mouth.


God bless.

Praise for the Bible

Oh, I love my Bible. I love all twelve or so translation lying about my house. I love that God loves stories and tells us so many truths in story-telling form.

I love that the word of God is alive and speaks to us and is always new and always right and perfect for us.

I love the Bible authors. Joel, Moses, Amos, Luke. Ooh, how I love Luke. Not because that's my husband's name but because Dr Luke is just so pro-the poor and so anti-the rich.

I love the wisdom, the poetry, the truth, the angst. I love everything in it. And if Christians would just read their Bibles -- in a translation they understand-- how it would teach us!